Dinah McLean is a sassy and sweet mama bear. 11 years ago she, along with her husband Mac, founded Team Click, the first exclusively online PR Agency in Los Angeles. Since then they have acquired another agency, doubled the size of their company, and evolved their business to provide a full suite of services to movie studios, gaming companies, and other entertainment-related properties. She has done all this while raising a child, battling severe anxiety and depression, and volunteering her time to support young women through the Step Up women's network. Now at a career crossroads, Dinah is exploring what it means to be a working mom, a wife, a business owner, and the need to follow one’s own passions and creative drive.
Originally published Aug 30, 2018
Dinah McLean is a sassy and sweet mama bear. 11 years ago she, along with her husband Mac, founded Team Click, the first exclusively online PR Agency in Los Angeles. Since then they have acquired another agency, doubled the size of their company, and evolved their business to provide a full suite of services to movie studios, gaming companies, and other entertainment-related properties. She has done all this while raising a child, battling severe anxiety and depression, and volunteering her time to support young women through the Step Up women's network. Now at a career crossroads, Dinah is exploring what it means to be a working mom, a wife, a business owner, and the need to follow one’s own passions and creative drive.
Dinah’s callouts:
Janice Lichtenwaldt: [00:00:11] Welcome back to the I Am Virago podcast, where we get real about the struggle. Drop the occasional F-bomb and hear how amazing Virago women imperfectly navigate the world around them.
[00:00:22] Today's guest, Dinah McLean is the co-founder of Team Click, Los Angeles based public relations firm. She talks about the struggle of being at a career crossroads. The lying chemicals in our brains and truth bombs. So grab that cup of ambition and let's get started.
Dinah McLean: [00:00:41] I am Dinah McLean, and to pay the bills, I am one half of a partnership that runs a PR company called Team Click. We do publicity and social media marketing for a variety of entertainment, gaming, and other kinds of tech clients throughout the L.A. area. I am very passionate about helping awesome people connect with other people.
JL: [00:01:07] So, Dinah, tell me a little bit about yourself and how you come to being half of a partnership in Team Click?
Dinah McLean: [00:01:16] Well, I went to school with every intention of getting a music education degree because I played the violin and I was super into teaching. So naturally, I graduated with a journalism degree that I had no intention of using. And I ended up starting a radio station and found my way into radio promotions and marketing. I did that for a little bit. I had a radio show with my friend Heather Lundie in Denver called Babes in Boyland. It was on an AM talk radio station. And then I found my way into film marketing and I worked in promotions in Denver. I met Mack McLean. I fell in love. I moved to Seattle and I started working at Ticketmaster. And I was there for a really long time because Ticketmaster ended up moving to L.A. Moved both of us to L.A. and right around 2007, Matt came home one day and said, "So here's the crossroads I'm at. I have an opportunity to really grow my business." And he was freelancing, doing freelance publicity at the time. He said, but I really need somebody that can handle the marketing and someone that knows how to run an agency and do operations and Excel spreadsheets.
[00:02:31] And I said, that's super interesting because I was offered another promotion at Ticketmaster. And say what you want about Ticketmaster, and god knows everybody does, but they were really good to me. While I worked there, but they offered me another promotion. And I came home and I was like, here's a weird situation to be in. I've been offered a promotion and I don't want to work there anymore. And if I turn it down, then they're gonna know I'm got one foot out the door. And he said, Oh, what do you want to do?
[00:02:59] And I was like, Dude, I don't honestly don't know. I'm just a burnt out from working in a tech company that where I wanted to be working in entertainment. I'm a little burnt out from doing product management. I'm a little burnt out from having everybody at a party asking me if they can either have free tickets or giving me shit about service fees, which now that I have to pay them, I understand frankly. I was just like, you know, all I really want my life out now is better gear and a shorter commute. And he said I have an idea. He said, What if you and I were to start this together? And this says a lot about me. I said, well, let me run a spreadsheet and take a look at our budget and see how much money we would actually have to bring in to support our life.
[00:03:43] Because at the time this was they call it The Golden Handcuffs, where when you've been with a company for seven years and you've been hustling hard and you've become a senior director and a national account manager. You have a lot of responsibility. You're overseeing a whole region of fabulous people. And I built up a nice salary and I was selling. So I was getting bonuses and commissions [And the money was good.] The money was good. I was 32 years old, you know. I mean, we'd gotten married in 2005. We bought a house. We'd gotten some dogs. I was you know, I had a nice salary. And then Max said, here's an idea. Let's give all of that up and start our own company where everything is uncertain. And I said, OK.
JL: [00:04:34] What made you say OK?
Dinah McLean: [00:04:37] It was a couple of big factors. One of them was that I'd always wanted to run my own company. I had a very entrepreneurial spirit and Mac had been having a lot of success working on his own. And there was something about the idea of doing our own thing that was extremely appealing. It had always been a goal of mine. I also knew that I wanted to start a family and I didn't want to be at the mercy of somebody else's maternity leave. The other reason is that I believed very, very strongly in Mac McLean and I really saw an opportunity with what he was doing because my husband is crazy smart and amazing. And it's taken a really long time even for him to see himself that way. But I've always known it and I saw that immediately. And I was just like, I think the two of us are going to do this like the Mac and Dinah show for a little bit. And we're going to have employees in about five minutes, which turned out to be true.
JL: [00:05:38] So how long has Team Click been around?
Dinah McLean: [00:05:40] We formed as Click Communications in 2007, and when last year we acquired Carl Sandrock PR so that we would become a full-service PR company, we started out as digital. And then we became full-service last year and we amended our name to Team Click because now we have different divisions. But all in we're eleven years old.
JL: [00:06:02] Congratulations.
Dinah McLean: [00:06:06] It's not an easy thing to do now, especially, you know. I mean, I don't know if you're familiar if you were following our, you know, U.S. economy around 2007, 2008, but it turned out to be a super shit time to start a company. Like we were doing so well for a little bit like studio budgets were big. And so we started out in those heydays and then the economy tanked. And we figured out really quickly, we need to diversify our business and we have to figure out how we're gonna be able to scale up and down with the economy.
JL: [00:06:41] So you started out gangbusters. You were bringing in the cash. You were having a great time. Economy falls. What kept you from folding?
Dinah McLean: [00:06:51] I want to have a really beautiful response to that. And I think it was stubborn, sheer force of will as much as anything else. We just figured we're going to just keep hustling. We're going to buckle down and we're gonna ride this out. The other reason that we didn't fold is because I was such a little saver. I was so paranoid about exactly this happening that when we were having the heydays and the first couple of years of Click, I dumped all of that into a savings account and I let it hang out there. So when times were tough, we dipped into it, and sometimes we had to make cutbacks. Other times I dipped into savings. So I've had years where we've lost money, but I was able to keep the lights on. And I've had years where we've turned a profit and I just sock that away into my savings account.
JL: [00:07:40] Well, you've clearly done it well. You're in business for eleven years. Nicely done. So I'd love to go into where you are today. So describe one recent professional or personal win.
Dinah McLean: [00:07:54] You know, here's what comes to mind. We recently did a presentation for a client. And as part of this presentation, I had to round up a bunch of different ideas from my entire staff, figure out how to represent them both in terms of what I how I wrote them out. I write the ideas as well as what kind of visual aids I can put in there. And we put together this whole presentation. And here's what's interesting about this particular one. We didn't actually get this job. We got a different job. They came back and they said, we've decided to go somewhere else for this one. And we're also going to do another job without you having to come in and present because fits and timing and what have you. So fine. So we won them over on the basis of who we are. Which was nice.
[00:08:40] But the win for me was one of my newer employees was sitting with me after we had done this. And she's been doing this for a long time. We kind of brought her over. She's after a long career. We brought her into the fold and she said, wow, you're really good at this. I really like -and she was very thorough- I really like the way you write these. I like the way you put them together. I like the way that you organized everybody's ideas. And I said thank you very much. And I also thought to myself, if I'm being honest. Damn right. I'm good at this. And the reason I think about that, like this just happened a couple weeks ago. But the reason I think about that as a professional win is it there's, I think, a little bit to unpack there. On the one hand, the presentation was very good. We got a lot of compliments from the client. The client really liked it. Even if we didn't get one job, we've got another one. So I consider that a wash. I inspired faith in my employees, which was nice, but mostly for me, it was a win because I've spent so much time and my career feeling insecure about the work that I do.
[00:09:41] So for me to hear that feedback was fabulous because we all like to hear, feel positive feedback. And I'm really bad at taking feedback. And it was a nice moment for me to feel like I'm going to take this positive compliment because she's right.
JL: [00:09:57] And that's something that everyone could do better with, is taking positive feedback and saying thank you. So now we will move into probably what will be easier for you it sounds like. Can you talk about a recent professional or personal struggle you've dealt with?
Dinah McLean: [00:10:14] Yeah, one of the things I've really been struggling with is figuring out my role in our company as it continues to grow and scale. I have hired some really fabulous people. My leadership team in particular is dope, and the rest of my team is also super dope. I love my company right now and I'm feeling like it's time for me to take a really hard look at what I'm contributing to the company and what I'm actually getting out of it. And one of the struggles for me also is that I have other things that I'm passionate about. I'm passionate about brokering connections between people, and I'm passionate about volunteering with this organization that I work with called The Step Up Women's Network.
[00:11:00] And I also love to write. And I used to have a blog. I haven't had one really since we started the company. You know, I would like to be working on novels. I'd like to be working out of a book about business. So my big struggle professionally right now is forging a new path, sort of working into the unknown and finding an appropriate balance that's going to really work for Click because I'm very precious about what's going to work for this company and also what's going to work for me. And for me saying a dream for myself that's just for me articulating that and also investing time in that, literally not something I've never done in my life. This is my struggle, trying to figure out how to incorporate more of my personal dreams into my new daily reality.
JL: [00:11:50] It sounds like you are at a crossroads in your professional development.
Dinah McLean: [00:11:55] Yes. And it's tricky. You know, Janice, because I think every good crossroads and every true moment of growth, you reach the sort of apex where you've got people at your office being like, wow, you're really good at putting together presentations. And you say thank you. But I think the crossroads point is that you get to this and you could feel so comfortable with it. And once you've adopted an entrepreneurial lifestyle, there's always gonna be that voice in your head that says, great. I've done it. What's next? [What's next?] Next is a whole bunch of shit I don't actually know how to do. And that is the scary part. That's going to be a challenge for me.
JL: [00:12:39] So let me ask you this. Let's say you're having coffee with a friend and she was telling you this story. What would you tell her?
Dinah McLean: [00:12:46] I mean, if the tables were turned, if this were you I think my initial response would be to say that sounds amazing and exciting, though, like. Yes, that is scary. And how much fun are you about to have?
JL: [00:12:58] So given that you're at this crossroads. And you talked about discipline and in different things you need to take a look at- what is one area right now where you'd really like to improve?
Dinah McLean: [00:13:10] I heard this quote on another podcast recently where they said, it's easier to act your way into changing your thinking than to think your way into changing your acting. So it's this idea that I can go to bed every day and say, you know, tomorrow I'm going to be super type-A, then I'm going to pop out of bed. I'm going to get my cup of ambition. I'm going to lay out all my goals on a piece of paper, and I'm going to have them all ticked off by two o'clock so I can you know... My life rarely works out like that because I have so many interruptions. So what do I have to do now? I have to figure out where my boundaries are going to be. I have to figure out which ones I'm going to enforce. And I actually have to sit down and do the discipline thing and write down the stuff and put the boundaries in there in the first place. And that is a big struggle and a big challenge for me.
JL: [00:13:54] So are you currently engaging in this practice?
Dinah McLean: [00:13:58] I'm- it's a work in progress, Janice. I'm not going to lie. I'm working towards a goal. So I have phases. So phase one is to start new habits with the schedule I have now. Phase two is to start cutting back on my time, given my kid's new summer schedule. I now have shorter days. And then by the time he goes back to school, I'm hoping that I'm gonna be a consultant two days a week. I'll be writing the other three.
JL: [00:14:25] So what it sounds like to me- what I'm hearing you say is you're breaking down the bigger goals into smaller goals. And it's not an all or nothing attack on this. It is, I'm going to work up. I'm going to get this small chunk under control. Then I'll move on to the next chunk. But if something falls short, it's not the end of the world.
Dinah McLean: [00:14:45] It's the only way it will work for me. And I know this after years of therapy. I know this after years of trying to be an overachiever where all or nothing appeals to my lizard brain, where I want to be able to embrace and be like, everything's gonna be better today. And because that's not possible, an all or nothing approach inevitably sets us up for failure. And if I can't take negative criticism very well, you know for sure I don't react really well to failure. I would rather set myself up for success. And for me, the best way to do that is to break down my goals into smaller, attainable goals, tackle them one at a time, and to try to change each one of those smaller things and turn it into a new habit.
JL: [00:15:35] That sounds like great advice we could all take. Which moves on, too. What advice would you have for young women starting out in their careers?
Dinah McLean: [00:15:43] I think the best advice is to keep an eye out for who you're working with because who you work with is as important, if not more important on some days than what you're doing with your time. No matter how passionate you are about your job, there will still be days when getting up in the morning and getting dressed and getting yourself to sit in front of you or whatever, or go out into the field and do whatever it is that you're doing with your time is going to be hard. And you can do that with people that support you and are nurturing you and are looking out for you. And that will make it better. I wish I had taken less crap from people earlier in my career. It's one of the few regrets that I have.
[00:16:27] When I had a really good friend of mine come to fill in for a coworker who was on maternity leave in one of my earlier jobs. And within a week she revealed to me, she said, FYI your struggle at this job is not you. These people are mean. They seemed to enjoy the process of making people cry at the office. This is actually unhealthy and you don't have to tolerate it. And it was mind-blowing to me. Janice, why didn't I already know that? I don't know why. And so I feel like I got that advice when I was younger. It opened my eyes. It taught me what kind of manager I wanted to be. I was like, what can I do to make my work environments more healthy?
JL: [00:17:11] It's great advice. Great advice. Thank you. So this is the I am Virgo podcast so with all of my guests, I ask them, what makes you a Virago?
Dinah McLean: [00:17:20] What makes me a Virago? I'm a champion for other women. It is interesting because I've learned to stand up more for myself in being a champion for other women, actually, because if I'm going to do that for others, why wouldn't I do it for myself? I want to lift up the voices of women that work hard and bring something cool and beautiful to the world. I want to shut down the voices of haters. And I'm a mama bear, you know, I'm a nurturer by nature. But I also see myself as being pretty fierce.
JL: [00:17:54] So in that spirit, then in champing other women. Is there anyone you want to call out for people listening to this podcast that they can go check out?
Dinah McLean: [00:18:04] First I would recommend a blog called Awesomely Luvvie by a writer named Luvvie Ajayi. She tackles a lot of really tough issues and she also is a really fun writer. And she makes me cackle as much as she helps me learn things. And I love her stuff. I'd like to give a huge shout out to my friend Rachel McKibbens. She is a poet. You should look for her stuff online. She's amazing. She rocks my world and she runs this awesome retreat every year called the Pink Door Writing Retreat, specifically for women and non-binary persons of color, because these are so often people who as writers, don't get their due at other traditional writing workshops. Rachel's working her ass off to actually lift up voices that otherwise don't get represented at a traditional conference. And for funsies, I highly recommend a blog called Go Fug Yourself. Written by Heather Cocks and Jessica Morgan. I've been following their work a nice long time. Oh, and the Step Up Women's Network. They have offices in Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, and their entire mission is to lift up underserved teenage girls. And they help them learn how to study. They help them with self-esteem issues. They create scholarships. And they've helped send more girls to college, many of whom I would even say most of whom are first in their family to go to college. And they are doing beautiful, beautiful work. And everybody should be involved and they're fabulous. You can help out on a national level, even if they aren't your city.
JL: [00:19:38] So very last question. What question do you wish I would have asked you?
Dinah McLean: [00:19:42] Well, you know, I touched a little bit on how I have seen a therapist with my own issues with, you know, being an overachiever and different things like that. But I also do all of these different things and I treat anxiety and depression at the same time. That's something it's important for me to create a lot of transparency and honesty around that conversation because I am really committed to removing any stigma associated with mental illness. I think that if somebody if I were on your podcast and I was talking about how I have to take insulin for diabetes and also I'm an entrepreneur, everybody would be like, OK. And as soon as somebody says, well, I am an entrepreneur, I run a company. I have sixteen employees. I write novels. I'm on the PTO and I have anxiety and depression. And people are sort of like, but how, though?
[00:20:35] And I'm here to tell you because I work hard on it. And I think that's important. I think that's important for people to understand that you can be strong, you can be a virago, you can champion other women and still have little lying chemicals in your brain that try to convince you not to do those things. Maybe that's what makes me a Virago. Maybe just a fact sometimes I feel like that I get out of bed in the morning and I just say, nope, screw it little hater chemicals in my brain. I'm gonna do some stuff today and you're not going to stop me. Sometimes that's all it is.
Janice Lichtenwaldt: [00:21:06] In all ways, yes. In all ways, yes. Thank you so much, Diana. Thank you so much for having me on, Janice. It was my pleasure. And I can't wait to see. Maybe we can check in with you in a bit and see how your crossroads efforts are going.
Dinah McLean: [00:21:24] Sure. That would be great.
JL: [00:21:26] All right. Thank you very much, Dinah McLean of Team Click.
Janice Lichtenwaldt: [00:21:32] Thank you, my Viragos, for listening to the I Am Virago podcast. Check out new episodes every Tuesday. If you have ideas or suggestions of who'd you'd like to hear from on this podcast, go to IAmVirago.com and leave a message. And remember, you are a Virago.