Zoe Kors is a Sex Coach who helps women find pleasure in themselves and their partners. She discusses how the systematic influence of the patriarchy teaches women to craft our appearance and behavior for the consumption of others and how we can peel back these layers to find our personal sovereignty. We also get into orgasms, how sex can be a form of prayer, and how, even as a successful sex coach, running a business is challenging. We discuss how the messages we received as young women can negatively impact our relationship with success or money and what we can do to tell a new story.
Originally published Aug 15, 2018
Zoe Kors is a Sex Coach who helps women find pleasure in themselves and their partners. She discusses how the systematic influence of the patriarchy teaches women to craft our appearance and behavior for the consumption of others and how we can peel back these layers to find our personal sovereignty. We also get into orgasms, how sex can be a form of prayer, and how, even as a successful sex coach, running a business is challenging. We discuss how the messages we received as young women can negatively impact our relationship with success or money and what we can do to tell a new story.
Janice Lichtenwaldt: [00:00:10] Welcome back to the I Am Virago podcast, where we get real about the struggle, drop the occasional F-bomb, and hear how amazing Virago women imperfectly navigate the world around them.
[00:00:20] Today's guest, Zoe Kors, is a certified sex coach who helps women find pleasure in themselves and in their partners. Hear how this very successful woman continues to navigate the peaks and valleys of business ownership and how our personal sovereignty serves us in fighting the patriarchy. Helping us live into the truth of our powerful essence.
Zoe Kors: [00:00:41] I am Zoe Kors and to pay the bills, I talk about sex.
JL: [00:00:47] And given what you do to pay the bills talking about sex, I really want to hear- what are you passionate about?
Zoe Kors: [00:00:54] Meaning other than sex?
[00:01:00] I am passionate about the truth. The awareness of the truth of what is right in front of us. Bringing to the forefront who we are. The essence of who we are and our natural expression. I'm passionate about my kids and ushering them through childhood into a sort of full-fledged adulthood. I'm passionate about my relationship. I was very intentionally single for 10 years, doing some deep work on myself and enjoying my sovereignty and freedom. And so now I finally found a partner who can engage with me and allow me to be who I am and operate the way I operate, which is beautiful. So I'm passionate about that. I'm passionate about tequila and music and living life.
JL: [00:02:01] I'm coming to hang out with you. Yeah, that sounds awesome. You used a word that was really interesting. Sovereignty, your own sovereignty. Can you provide a little more background about what that means to you?
Zoe Kors: [00:02:12] Yeah, I can give you the short version of the long version of this. So just feel free to rein me in a little bit, because this is really pretty much part of my purpose here, I think is to help people see where they are making decisions in life and even holding truths about themselves that aren't really their truths at all.
[00:02:35] We live in a system essentially the system is called the patriarchy, and we are influenced from the time that we are conscious in terms of who we are, who we should be, how we should feel, how we should look as women. You know, we are taught that we should be crafting our appearance and our behavior for the consumption of others. By sovereignty. I mean, really doing the work, which isn't always easy work to peel back the layers to what is real for us and live in the truth of our essence, of our bones, you know, and be who we are called to be.
JL: [00:03:18] You know, you said a word in there several times that in my coaching practice, I tell them there's swearing in my coaching practice. Yeah, there is a lot of swearing. But those aren't dirty words. The dirty word list at the top of it is "should". And should is everyone else's expectations, right?
Zoe Kors: [00:03:36] Yes. And our expectations of ourselves based on what we are receiving from other people, you know.
JL: [00:03:44] So I think this is a great time. I suspect people are going. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. At the beginning of this, she said to pay the bills I talk about sex and they're probably going, "I want to hear more about that." Like I want to hear more about that. Can you give just a little overview of what it is that you do with your day?
Zoe Kors: [00:04:03] What I do with my day, for the most part, is get on the phone for one-hour chunks of time with various clients who are struggling with some aspect of their sexual expression, or their sex life.
[00:04:18] And that can look like anything from, you know, I am a woman and I'm having trouble orgasming. Can you help me? It can be. I've been married for fifteen years and I no longer have any desire to have sex with my husband. Can you help me with that? Large number of my clients have suffered traumatic abuse or violence against them. So I work with women who are now at a point where they process their trauma enough that they are ready to integrate healthy sexuality again. I also offer my services through a counseling center that works with sexual addiction and they specialize in the support of partners of sex addicts. They do a lot of work with the addicts themselves but really supporting the partners of addicts in dealing with the trauma of the trail.
JL: [00:05:18] I'm a bit at a loss for words because that is it's so powerful. And people are so hesitant to say the word orgasm. It's like we talk about... orgasms? It's such a powerful, powerful thing. And I am so curious as to how you found yourself in this space.
Zoe Kors: [00:05:40] You know, people ask me all the time and, you know, it's so easy to look in hindsight and see all of the things, you know, draw, connect to all of the dots to where you are now. I would say that I was born with a really healthy connection to my sexuality. I don't have any other explanation other than that. You know, some people are virtuoso violinists and some people are, you know, incredible business people.
[00:06:10] And I just have a gift for expressing myself sexually and for distilling down what sex really is and the opportunity there in sexuality. And for whatever reason, I'm able to talk about and willing to talk about sex in a way that many people aren't.
JL: [00:06:31] What really is sex?
Zoe Kors: [00:06:36] Sex is a form of prayer. Sex is the universe making love to itself through us. What I truly believe sex provides an avenue for connection not just with each other, but with ourselves and with the divine. However, you choose to language that. The divine, the mysteries, god, goddess, the universe. There's an otherworldly property to arousal and to sex and sexual expression that I think is often overlooked.
JL: [00:07:15] Yes, in society, in the way I grew up, in the time that I grew up, there was a lot of shame around it. And I know I've talked to my girlfriends about the shame that they carry around it and what a beautiful thing to be able to move forward in a shameless way. So this podcast is about Virago women and showing up in their full power and also giving examples of where they are knocking it out of the park and where they might be struggling. So would you be able to describe a recent professional or personal win that you're really excited about?
Zoe Kors: [00:07:50] I would love to. I do a lot of work in like one on one in coaching. I have private individual clients and couples. And I also do quite a bit of workshop facilitation where I have anywhere from 50 to 200 people in a room or in a space of some kind. And I love doing both of those things. But one of the things that I've really wanted to do is to develop a program that is somewhere in between that so that I can get the benefit of a sisterhood and of the kind of intimacy and witnessing that goes on in a group of people. And also dive deep and do it, you know, on an ongoing basis.
[00:08:37] So I developed a program called Holy Sexy You and we are halfway through our inaugural run of that. It's something that I will be offering two or three times a year. It's a 12-week program. And I really took a long time developing this and I really went through a process with myself of letting go of everything that I thought I know about facilitation and coaching and groups and online programs and using technology. And over the 12 weeks, I've really looked at sort of the arc of vulnerability and intimacy and transformation. We're really heading into the deepest part of the program. And I feel really grateful to the women who are on board with me, who chose to do this with me and very validated that I'm onto something here.
JL: [00:09:35] Know, the listeners don't have the benefit of being able to seek your face right now. We're doing this call in Zoom and you're glowing. Congratulations.
Zoe Kors: [00:09:45] Thank you.
JL: [00:09:46] You know, we don't want to glow for too long. Let me bring it down. Yeah. And can you describe a recent professional personal struggle that you've been dealing with?
Zoe Kors: [00:09:56] Yes, for sure. Historically, I have not been a very good businesswoman. I can clean it up in the sort of the services that I provide. And I feel woefully underdeveloped in terms of my entrepreneurialship. So that has been a continuing struggle for me.
JL: [00:10:21] Putting the business hat on top of the work that you're passionate about. Yes, I suspect that that is something that many women struggle with. I think especially for women, you want to go out and do these wonderful things. And the business part is not as much fun sometimes for folks. So how are you addressing that?
Zoe Kors: [00:10:46] Excellent question. I engaged both a business coach and a shaman.
JL: [00:10:53] Oh, please tell me.
Zoe Kors: [00:10:56] It's so fascinating because everything that I do for women around sexuality, I really need to do for myself in terms of business and success and finance and my sort of bigness in that world. So I took a lot of my methodology and kind of turned it around and looked at specifically not, of course, the sexual practices that I sort of instruct women to do, but a lot of the foundational work and the ways in which we hide from ourselves that we're not truthful. The stories that we tell ourselves and the stories that are so ingrained and programmed in us that they're not even stories. They're in the fabric of how we operate. [Part of the weave.] Yeah. So in these two perspectives and these two disciplines of having a coach that can actually educate me on, look, this is how it's done. It's not emotionally charged. You know, you just do this. You have a business plan and you have a certain number of coaching hours. And, you know, this is how you value those coaching hours and this is how you tell people that this is what you charge. And it's demystifying. [Yes. Yes.] And the sort of all the angst around that is then discharged.
[00:12:23] And I actually have somebody giving me permission to see myself as valuable and worth being compensated for the work that I do and for the freedom that I help women achieve. Then the other piece of it is this shaman that I sort of happened on to. We didn't co-facilitate, but we each facilitated a segment of a retreat that we were on last fall and really hit it off, really connected. She is helping me get to the bottom of some of the things I can't even really be named. It's a deep dive into my lineage, my maternal lineage, a lot of the pain around success and being seen and money, and all of that. So some of that I can speak to, some of it I can sort of understand and process how my mother's, my grandmother's perspective on money and success, how that affects me, and the messages that I was really given by example. And actually in language, and some of it is such a deep energy work that I'm not even sure what is going on. But I stick with it and I do the exercises and the rituals that I'm to do. And it's been amazing, actually.
JL: [00:13:51] It sounds to me like you you trust the process, you trust your advisor, and you're leaning into this and saying, I'm drinking the Kool-Aid, I'm going to do the work and see what happens.
Zoe Kors: [00:14:03] Yeah. So much of that is really very much about letting go and trusting and not having to intellectualize and believe what's right in front of me. It's been an ongoing and still to this day, I have to really remind myself that chanting my mantra every day, sitting on my meditation cushion every day is good for me. I see the results of what that brings. And I don't need to understand why. It just is. And it's OK.
JL: [00:14:31] You don't have to understand why. You don't have to understand how. The results speak for themselves. And I just imagine when you were talking about your business coach and your shaman, the shaman is the “co” and the business coach is the “active”. And they're always- it's like a long rope that has- there has to be tension in that to move them around. But you need both and you need equal amounts.
Zoe Kors: [00:14:54] And sometimes a little bit more of one and sometimes a little bit more of the other. Yes, absolutely.
JL: [00:15:01] And it's a constant movement. You know, I talked to some of my clients, it's like sitting on a stability ball. You're never still when you're sitting on a stability ball. It's micro-movements. You're always adjusting to keep that balance. And I think that's a good life lesson as well.
Zoe Kors: [00:15:15] Yeah, absolutely.
JL: [00:15:16] So you've had a really amazing career and you've done some very nontraditional work as painted by current society. What advice would you have for young women getting into their careers now and feeling that going to an office every day might not be my bag?
Zoe Kors: [00:15:38] You can do anything that you want. And when I say that, it's not to say that you won't have challenges and that we don't work within a system. I mean, you want to be a woman talking about sexuality? It's not easy. It's a challenge, but it's possible. I'm not going to say that it's easy to do anything. And all you have to do is think about it and it will happen. But there's a pathway to doing what you want to do. And that involves a couple of things.
[00:16:07] One, doing the work on yourself to find who you are and why you're here and what drives you and what you're passionate about. And then being flexible in the pursuit of that to stay open to how that might manifest and shift and take shape over the long term.
JL: [00:16:29] Yeah. When you become so focused on this is the one way in which I can accomplish this thing and that way doesn't work for some reason. You see a lot of people just give him because. Well, that wasn't the path for me. Well, no. It is the path. And you just get to take a more roundabout way to get there.
Zoe Kors: [00:16:45] Yeah. You know, again, it comes back to sort of surrendering to the circumstances in front of you and finding the way out.
JL: [00:16:54] So that leads me into this question. What makes you a virago?
Zoe Kors: [00:17:00] I think what makes me a virago is my drive to tell the truth. Whether that's receiving my latte at the coffee house and have it not taste right and give it back to be remade or whether that's, you know, holding space for a woman who is really facing some serious pain about her body or her sexuality and really facilitating the emergence of her truth. I am passionate and committed with every cell of my body and every moment of the day to getting to the bottom of what really is. And it's taken me a while over the years to really step into that and own it and know that it's just part of who I am.
JL: [00:17:51] Yes. So we're coming to a close. What question do you wish I would have asked that I did not.
Zoe Kors: [00:17:59] I think, Janice, what I would love for you to ask me is how women can leverage their sexuality in becoming a virago.
JL: [00:18:11] I would love it if you could answer that question. OK.
Zoe Kors: [00:18:15] So here's the thing with women. We are sitting on the most powerful vortex to the divine wisdom of the universe. And we don't even know it. We as women have a fire that burns inside of us. It's the flame of passion, of desire. It sustains humanity. It sparks life. It's the creative wisdom of the universe. We are seldom given that perspective of who we are. And the enormous power that we have as women to tap into that life force and to channel that life force out into the world. I often say you cannot be a powerful woman and be afraid of your pussy.
[00:19:10] You cannot be a powerful woman and be afraid of your pussy. And pussy is a word very much like virago, where it's there for the reclaiming. We can grab that back. [Yeah!] So our divinity, our sacred power, our birthright is right there for us to reclaim. And that is really the truth of our sexuality. It's not about, you know, having sex, nailing a man, giving a good blowjob. It's not about any of those things at its essence, at its core. It's about channeling the wisdom, and the creativity in the universe to affect, change, and, create a world.
JL: [00:20:00] [quiet pause] I just wanted to give a little space for that to land for people, for people who are listening right now. I want you to know that Zoe has this amazing daily newsletter that goes out. It's one or two sentences and it's called The Daily Message from Your Pussy.
Zoe Kors: [00:20:17] Daily Notes from your Pussy.
JL: [00:20:18] Daily Notes from Your Pussy. And I have to tell you, I've been getting them for the last couple of weeks and they are delightful. So I highly recommend that. And you said that your inaugural workshop is happening right now. You're halfway through. When is your next workshop?
Zoe Kors: [00:20:34] My next online workshop, 12-week program Holy Sexy You, will be beginning in late September and you can read more about it at ZoeKors.com, along with Daily Notes from Your Pussy, you can sign up. And when you do sign up for those notes, they're one of my most favorite things in the whole world to do. When you sign up, you actually tell me what you want your pussy to call you. [Yes.] So my pussy calls me peaches.
JL: [00:21:04] Pussy calls me "Oh, Honey." "Oh, Honey." Yeah.
[00:21:09] Zoe, thank you so much for sharing and being a part of this Virago podcast. You are virago.
Zoe Kors: [00:21:17] Thank you so much, Janice. I love the work that you're doing in the world and it's really a privilege to be here with you today.
Janice Lichtenwaldt: [00:21:28] Thank you, my Viragos, for listening to the I Am Virago podcast. Check out new episodes every Tuesday. If you have ideas or suggestions of who you'd like to hear from on this podcast, go to www.IAmVirago.com and leave a message. And remember, you are a Virago.